I recently came across a comment loaded with questions and thought, “Why not just do a post answering these?” They came from someone in his late twenties who hurt himself skiing last February and is now struggling with knee pain. He’s tried a number of things to fix the problem, has many questions, and I invite all of you out there to help me with the answers if you’d like.
Q: Do you believe you could have still recovered in the office setting (which, I assume, means had I not quit my job and continued to work sitting at a desk)?
A: I honestly don’t know with certainty. I know it would have been harder, for sure. The act of sitting was causing me problems, and I had a job that required a lot of sitting (a standing desk would not have helped either, because at that point I couldn’t stand in one place for very long either).
Q: Your story somewhat ends abruptly, in the second year of recovery. Did you slowly increase your activities on the same rigid scientific approach? At some point did it feel like you came out of the rehab stage?
A: Yes, others have made the same complaint about the book, so that’s probably my fault for moving too quickly through the narrative of the latter stages of my recovery. But to me, it simply wasn’t as interesting. That’s because I began making steadier progress, suffering fewer setbacks. Yes, I was still careful about how fast I increased my step counts, etc.
Apart from that, I’m not sure that there was a clear line of demarcation where I “came out of the rehab stage.” I was pretty much healed when I rejoined Bloomberg in the last part of December 2009. Still, I had days at Bloomberg where my knees felt a little cranky. That minor discomfort did go away eventually, but that just goes to show healing is long and gradual.
Q: Does research suggest a cortisone shot prevents cartilage from healing?
A: I’m not a fan. And yes, the research on cortisone shots is not good. Just do a search on this blog for “steroid.” You’ll see.
Q: How did you explain your injury to outsiders?
A: I don’t recall this being a big issue. I mostly just said I had knee pain. If you come up with a short spiel that goes, “I have knee pain and I’m working to resolve it,” that seems to satisfy most people. They don’t particularly want to hear that much about your injuries anyway.
Q: Does research suggest age playing a factor in the speed of cartilage recovery?
A: I’ve seen at least one that shows an age-related effect, yes. But it’s significantly smaller than most people would guess. So you probably do have an edge, being in your late twenties, but I don’t think it’s a huge edge.
Q: I’ve seen your comments on diet, that you think it did not play a significant part in your recovery but losing weight is one of your 4 keys to rehab. Have you done any research on the claims that low carb/keto type diets can help arthritis patients?
A: Unloading the knee by shedding a few pounds is always a good idea for pudgy people; for thinner people the benefits may be much smaller (because there’s less fat to lose). I’m ignorant and agnostic on the effect of special diets on knee pain. Usually, diet didn’t affect my knee pain.
However, when I loaded up on fatty foods, I did seem to feel a bit worse. So it’s probably smart to try to eat as healthy as possible, and look for anti-inflammatory foods. (One other important note on diet: my experience is by no means representative; if you comb through comments on this blog, you’ll find a number of people who say changing their diet was absolutely important in getting their knee pain under control.)
Q: Do you think weightlifting, upper body type workouts, are safe to resume?
A: I would think so, but I would still carefully monitor my knees. This seems minor, but some of those exercises cause unrelated muscles to tense up, and that could cause irritation for bad knees. Also, be prepared: if you have knee pain long enough, you may find other mysterious joint issues popping up, such as with your elbows or shoulders, when you’re lifting weights.
Generally though, I think it’s good to engage in activities that get your heart pumping and get you perspiring.
Q: Any other exercising activities you came across that don’t overload the knee joints? I think my knee is responding OK to low-watt biking.
A: My favorite ideas remain walking slowly, pool exercises, and easy cycling. If your knee does well with low-watt biking, congratulations. That may be your ticket out of this mess.
Thanks for the new post for open discussion and detailed answers! I think I also want to try to answer some of those questions. So I am posting my reply to QSTEW123 below;
ReplyDeleteThis is so strange that your story resembles with my mine with lots of similarities! I also had a snowboarding accident and went back my hard super circuit trainings (like cross-fit trainings) very early after the accident. I also had that pain in those trainings which was a signal of body to withdraw that activity.
I can start with your first question.
Q: "Why was nothing working?"
A: It is obvious that you possibly pushed your limits in a very short time in that vacation you mentioned. Maybe you did some kneeling, squat or walked a lot which was out of your envelope? I did not research for cortisol but I guess it acts like a painkiller which can mislead a person to act out of his/her envelope. (Envelope of function theory of Dr. Dye resembles a lot with the experiences of contributors of this blog) I should also mention again that we should have withdrew from our demanding sports to let our knees heal completely after the accident. We did the right thing with going to a doctor but I think that my doctor released me very early. I would have preferred to return back to sports when my pain had gone or in other words when my knees are silent in terms of pain. I think these were the two factors in my humble opinion.
Q: Do you believe you could have still recovered in the office setting?
A: Yes but under certain conditions. I am an industrial engineer who codes, does analysis, writes documents, attends meetings with both inside and outside the office. I once healed by 80% after 7 months from the accident and I went to vacation which was very demanding in terms of activity. And I did not use painkiller etc. at those times. So I can definitely say I healed in 2-3 months while I attend to office. (I should mention that we had a very relaxed environment which I could stop working and walk inside or outside the office whenever I want) But I did huge changes in my lifestyle. I completely avoid sports, running, standing above 1 hour, sitting above one hour. I always had rest while I was not working at nights and weekends. I attended a few of activities outside in that period. But I also have decided to leave my job to focus my healing much more and the commute to work was really long like 90 minutes after my first setback which was catastrophic. I think you can evaluate your work and come to a decision for yourself.
Q: How did you explain your injury to outsiders? I find it difficult or too consuming to go into details unless it is someone I’m close with.
ReplyDeleteA: I think this is one of the most critical problems for me in this journey. It is really hard to tell or remind people that I have annoying pain at my knees. I think my words are not enough to explain what I have been through. I would make them read the book of Richard if it would be possible. I also want to mention that this emotional situation can change from a person to person a lot. I have born and living in a city which is a bridge between West and East. So I can sometimes become too emotional and care too much what other people are thinking about me and my injury. I think Richard is right about trying to cut the conversation short.
Q: Does research suggest age playing a factor on speed of cartilage recovery? Not to discourage the older populace suffering but looking for more optimism. For the record, I’m in my late 20’s.
A: I read the book of Richard two times. It seems that age does not affect with significance. But being young can affect the journey in many positive ways. I know your hesitation since I am also 29 and I also have many questions and concerns about the near future, the next 2-3 years which include events that I dreamed of and maybe I will postpone them in case of not healing very much.
Q: I’ve seen your comments on diet that you think it did not play a significant part in your recovery but losing weight is one of your 4 keys to rehab. Have you done any research on the claims that low carb/keto type diets can help arthritis patients? I think I might try it not expecting it to play a significant role, but it could help with losing a few pounds anyway. Also, for the record I’m low body fat but think losing 5 or so lbs would only be beneficial.
A: I have tried juice fasting for a few days and my pain was vanished at the first two days. I think the brain is shocked when there is an unexpected event because juice fasting is a sharp change for a body. I do not know the effects in the long-run since I did not continue. I am also eating organic and natural foods for the last 4 years apart from my injury. Every single food comes from special farms in Turkey and I don't go the supermarkets for 4 years. But I cannot measure the positive effects since it is nearly impossible. I may be lucky in terms of eating.
Q: Do you think weightlifting – upper body type workouts are safe to resume? Any other exercising activities you came across that don’t overload the knee joints? I think my knee is responding ok to low watt biking.
A: I also missed upper body workouts a lot. I continued to do them for 4 months after the first accident. But it is very risky if you are doing workout with heavy loads. You will carry them while you start your set and end your set. I also now think whether I can create an environment at the house which is free in terms of knee loading. If I can put dumbbells on a stand where I will not need to carry them anymore and if I have a bench where my knee is load-free, maybe I can do some upper body workouts in the future. I would like to share ideas in this specific subject very much in the near future. Richard's comment is also very important that these strange or abnormal moves/positions can also lead other injuries or accidents.
Just wanted to chip in here in case it helps anyone, I'm pretty sure after 7yrs, altered neural pathways are a big part of my issue & those pathways are reinforced by anything that looks like 'triathlon' - with the exception of swimming (though I still limit my kicking) & mountain biking (I have to keep it under about 45mins - even though some of it is quite intense uphill).
ReplyDeleteI read & re-read this and it really stuck a chord with me - https://inscape489664645.wordpress.com/2018/07/24/my-knee-pain-success-story-a-surprising-road-from-despair-to-joy/
As I said before, I find the TENS machine is a big help in 'tricking' these neural pathways to switch off. Icing also helps.
Hi TriAgain, I am really thankful that you shared the story above. I started using TENS machine after I read the story. Meanwhile, I also read a lot on mind-body connection. These concepts make sense to me because I practiced Qigong in the past to deal with stress. And I managed it through regular Qigong practice.
DeleteThe article below gives very good insights about the issue;
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5496698/
I can also conclude from my X days experience that we can moderate/decrease pain via reducing stress/anxiety. I had one of my best days in the last months while I used TENS machine, icing, meditation and tried to stay in the envelope of function. I also had some positive events in my life. So, I am still not sure whether it is placebo effect or not. I am also not sure about erasing pain completely via understanding mind-body connection. The paper above argues that pain cannot be eliminated completely via reducing stress. But I will continue them while I stay in my envelope since TENS and meditation have no adverse effect. (Debate on icing still continues)
I hope I can be better in the future.
Correction: "I can also conclude from my 21 days experience"
DeleteThanks Richard for the thorough response from the list of questions posted and the others who have commented. I'm glad you brought up the standing point, we did get standing desks at work and they provide occasional comfort using a stool or short periods of standing but that's about all. And the advice from you and Deathgrip on upper body workouts makes sense, I have stuck to mostly push ups and pull ups as weights could have unintended consequences especially for exercises where knees are in a bent position.
ReplyDeleteTriAgain - thanks for posting the article above. It is another interesting perspective of someone's (successful) journey with knee pain. Based on that story, I poked around on the subject and came across an article - https://www.healio.com/orthopedics/news/blogs/%7B2da51719-eca2-4914-90f5-d3b47533d7fe%7D/patellofemoral-update/catastrophic-thinking-is-a-new-puzzle-piece-in-understanding-anterior-knee-pain
This quote seemed to resonate with me - "However, what we do not know is if this pain reduction is a consequence of the reduction of catastrophizing or if the catastrophizing decreases because the pain is reduced because of physical therapy or surgery."
I do find it appealing that both of these methods - focusing on the role of the brain/neural pathways and increasing your envelope of function - can work side by side. Richard or anyone else have thoughts on it?
Hi, I posted a comment above which is related to your question.
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