Saturday, October 19, 2019

On Quads Sets and Easy Passive Motion

Okay,  so here’s a comment I received (lightly edited):
I am a little worried right now, as unfortunately, I experience pain when walking. I also experienced it while biking. I am not sure yet what low-rep activities to pursue at this point, and I can't take off work to devote my time to laying with my legs up. Sometimes the pain comes on directly during physical activity, and other times will just appear as I'm resting, even laying down, usually at night. I also have an adorable 20-lb. daughter that I have to carry around quite a bit... unfortunately I think it is causing a toll.
Question: Some studies you mention say isometric quad sets improve, thicken viscosity of the synovial fluid. So I'm thinking about keeping some of those exercises and abandoning the wall sits, one-legged squats my PT had me do. Any thoughts? Also wondering how this works, as it doesn't seem like there is any motion involved with these exercises. 
Another question: it appears that bearing appropriately light load and motion is the best combo. In the study with the rabbits, did it seem that they were bearing load when they were attached to the passive motion machine? It seemed to indicate that motion, no load, allowed regrowth of cartilage only when a hole had reached the cartilage. I am considering whether or not bicycling in the air, while laying on my back, would be a smart way to get more motion without overloading and damaging the cartilage.
First, on this: “I'm thinking about keeping some of those exercises and abandoning the wall sits, one-legged squats my PT had me do.”

This sounds like you have a real muscle-first kind of guy. In other words, a typical physical therapist. As I see it, the trouble with “wall sits” (put your back against the wall and slide down, until it looks like you’re sitting on an invisible chair) and “one-legged squats” (squat down on one leg, then straighten up) is that they’re great for people with good knees (or knees that aren’t too bad) but can be disastrous for people with tender, easily upset joints.

When I had chronic knee pain, both of those activities bothered my knees. Eventually I simply said, “no more.”

Now, as for the isometric quad sets: Right, a study showed subjects who did them had thicker viscosity of their synovial fluid. How does that work, when there’s no motion? You know, that’s a good question. I’ve wondered it myself. How the hell does that work?

In any event, I have to confess: I’m not a huge fan of isometric quad sets. I guess they could be a useful way to build up your quads without irritating the joint (though sometimes they do irritate it, oddly enough). I have wondered if perhaps the thicker synovial fluid that researchers found was due to something else.

Then again, maybe quad sets are a good idea, which is my way of saying, “You might want to try them and see if they’re useful for you.” In any event, the bottom line for me is they didn’t factor in my recovery.

On the rabbits and passive motion: Yeah, no load. That’s my understanding. Like when your physical therapist grabs your leg, and moves it through a range of motion, and you just lie there on your back and watch.

So would lying on your back and pedaling in the air be the equivalent? Uh, I’m not sure about that. I just got on my back and went through some “air pedaling” motions, and it was harder than I expected. It certainly wasn’t easy peasy passive motion. However, you can always try it – I’m usually quick to point out that I don’t have advice or answers necessarily, but just like to share my thoughts on things.

I think it’s easier to replicate near-passive motion on a stationary bike. Set the resistance to zero, for instance. Or try to pedal backwards. Still, if your knees get cranky doing that, maybe this isn’t the best activity for you. One other option, if you really think you need to go back to square one, are what Doug Kelsey calls “sliders.” You basically put your feet on something like a dolly, and move your legs back and forth using its smooth rolling motion (I think).

I would definitely find out how Doug advises the exercises be done.

You might think about starting there, and build up to something harder later: easy cycling, or walking, or whatever.

One last note for everyone out there: I talked to the Washington Post reporter again, and she says that the article that she’s writing got delayed, but it’s planned now for early November. I’ll keep you all posted!

4 comments:

  1. I fully agree with Richard's sentiments above. The PTs also had me trying one leg squats and it was a disaster.
    One other thing I've never mentioned. While my knees are not 100%, the pain is down to a level where I can ascertain much more clearly what annoys them and what does not.
    Until I got onto the Celebrex for 6mths to knock out the chronic inflammation, they just hurt/burned/stiff nearly all the time (= serious misery) and I could never figure out what made them worse or better. Now I'm at a stage where that is much easier to work out. For a while they were almost back to normal, but then I ramped things up too much and felt the old symptoms coming back. But now I know how to control it much better.

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    1. Hi TriAgain, I know we've chatted a bit before but I just came across your comments here and have a question if you're able to help?

      I too have the (almost all of the time) stiffness feeling and ache/warmth/burning/feeling like lots is going on in the knees. I wonder if you can shed any light on whether this sometimes would get worse the more careful you were on your knees and the less you moved? My CNS-type pains increase and stiffness increases the less I move so I virtually always end up walking lots suddenly to try and shake this and I feel this might be the reason I am just not really improving (if my thinking is correct and my envelope might be in the range of a 2-minute walk currently..)

      I'm hoping an arthroscopy I had last week in which they found an impinging medial plica and large chondral lesion might aid somewhat in my journey to get on the upwards trend as well!

      Thanks,
      Matthew

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  2. I find that this is common experience of people with knee pain (source: scroll to 0:24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeIP5xl1w2w ).
    Here are two videos that explain how to improve the performance of Quad Sets:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYzDO_7gLjk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9xmcG-kZzU
    And here's an easy way to achieve gentle knee motion:
    https://www.kertzcoaching.com/post/2017/02/13/easily-eliminate-knee-stiffness

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  3. Article posted today.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/suffering-from-bad-knees-some-look-for-alternatives-to-surgery/2019/11/15/d286d862-dfd7-11e9-be96-6adb81821e90_story.html#comments-wrapper

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