Sunday, October 22, 2023

What to Do About Intermittent Knee Pain/Swelling?

 Dipping into the mailbag (well, "comment bag"):

What would you do about intermittent and unpredictable pain? Mine started after a mild injury last winter. I got a clean bill of health from a doctor and got on with physio, which helped enough.

But recently I've been getting bouts of pain and swelling, which your blog has helped me to recognize are probably delayed onset pain from activities. I like walking and swimming anyway so I decided to follow your methods. The issue I'm having is that a walk of, say 5km, can be fine one week and agonizing the next. I'm struggling to develop and keep to any plan because it all just feels so unpredictable.

This is a great question, because it's a hard one, and also so common (especially for people who are desperately seeking to remain active).

So, in a nutshell, if you're an active person struggling to overcome knee pain, the situation can look something like this:

One day, you notice you have knee pain. Over the next few weeks, you try to ignore it. But it doesn't go away. Frustrated, you finally decide to curtail your activities. You settle on something like "I'll walk 5,000 steps a day. That's nothing! I'm used to doing so, so much more! But I'll just do the 5,000 steps for a while, build up my knees and maybe leg muscles too, then increase my walking. And then, after some months, I'll be healed!"

But then: Ugh. You do your 5,000 steps each day and the results are decidedly mixed. You have some good days. But there are bad days mixed in, and you're not quite sure why. You flounder about, growing more frustrated. What's going on? You know you're fit enough. You should be able to walk 10,000 steps a day, no problem. Gradually, you start to lose hope ...

In this case, "Intermittent Pain" is getting "pain and swelling" ... and the results of walking some distance can be fine one week and "agonizing the next."

So here are some thoughts (and again, not advice, but things to consider):

1. A couple of scary words in Intermittent Pain's account are "swelling" and "agonizing." This sounds like what would be expected from someone with a weak joint who is doing too much.

Even though some weeks are "fine," my inclination would be to worry I'm playing around a little too close to the edge of what my knee can tolerate. This reminds me of when I got a leave from my job in Hong Kong because of my bad knees and, convinced that they really needed movement, proceeded to drown them in easy movement. And I got worse.

My real "ah hah" moment came on realizing my knees were a lot weaker than I initially thought. That's when I scaled way, way back on my walking. This can be very, very hard to do for active people who are used to biking or running or hiking for hours and hours every week. But when I scaled way, way back, I was able to find a new baseline, then start to improve from that.

2. Another thing that can be useful is trying to keep notes on what's happening on the bad knee days. Do they typically fall on days when you have to sit a lot the day before? Do they come after you eat certain foods? In certain weather? I would hoover up details, jot them down, and see if I can detect patterns. 

3. I don't know what the mild injury you sustained was, but might it be worth going back to the doctor (or seeing another doctor) to make sure there's no lingering issue (or new issue) that could be causing problems? There always could be something structurally wrong that needs attention.

4. You mention you like swimming. That's wonderful (and typically a great activity for bad knees). If I were you, I might think about spending as much time in the pool as I can, and as little time walking about on land as possible, when it comes to getting my exercise in.

That's all from me! Readers of this blog may have other thoughts. Good luck! 

8 comments:

  1. Hey Richard. I'm 'Intermittent', and grateful for your reply. I think you're right that I was overdoing it.

    The original injury was a suspected kneecap subluxation (partial dislocation). However things have changed a bit since I wrote that comment, thanks to seeing a new doctor.

    It turns out I am one of the rare people for whom the "bad alignment" diagnosis is useful. He linked up my recent knee pain with a lifetime of achy feet and ankle issues - and concluded I have malalignment in my long bones sufficient to be classified as a deformity. In laymans terms, I have 'Charlie Chaplin' feet caused by my tibia developing abnormally. A normal tibia has anything from 20 to 30 degrees twist in it; mine has around 60. This means my knee is experiencing, in his words, a constant 'chinese burn' effect, pulling muscles and ligaments in two directions. Over the next few months it'll be up to me to decide whether I'm getting better enough doing things my way (gentle exercise etc), or whether to proceed with fixing the deformity, a major surgery involving breaking my tibia and rotating it so that my thigh and feet line up.

    Having read your writings on the theories of alignment, I think I can add something useful. If you have major alignment issues, you won't be limited to kneecap pain or quadriceps issues. Over the years, I've had multiple kneecap subluxations, foot pain, calf pain, shin pain... the works. Nobody had ever put all of those pieces together before, and each had been treated individually with limited success. So, to readers, if you have pain beyond your knee, then consider the alignment.

    And yet, even with a knee that in all likelihood will need major fixing... I still have had benefit over the last few months with your methods. Not total, and probably not enough long-term to 'save my knee', but for calming stressed cartilage it continues to work.

    P.S: The proper name for my issue is severe external tibial torsion. If combined with counteracting internal femoral torsion, it gets the delightful name of Miserable Malalignment Syndrome.

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    1. Yes, this is why it's a good reason to never rule out anything (malalignment included). It's true I'm skeptical of malalignment because it's blamed too often as a cause of knee pain. However, as your case shows, it certainly can be a cause in some cases. You make some good points for people suffering from knee pain that could be a result of bad alignment. Best of luck!

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  2. It's been a while since I've posted on this blog, but, I just wanted to say hello! I do still read the blog from time to time even if I do not post a message.

    My update is that the original knee that was giving me so much pain for so many years (the right knee) is still doing really well! (For blog readers who don't know my healing journey, I was finally able to heal my knee pain after years and years and years of suffering -- and I did it using the low load / high rep method and also lots and lots and lots of patience.

    However, now my left knee has been bothering me! Fortunately, the symptoms are not nearly as bad as the right knee had been! So, I hope I will be able to tackle this and get it healed up before it gets worse. My method for healing will be the high rep/ low load activities such as swimming (or gentle water movement) and biking (without hills initially... just biking on flat paths or gentle slopes) and then slowly progressing from there.

    Anyway, it's a good thing to feel so confident in a path for healing -- although, the patience part is still challenging!!

    I am glad to see that TryAgain's knees are also still doing well -- and also Richard's knees, of course!

    Anyway, just wanted to say Hello and wish everyone well.

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    1. Always great to hear from you! I feel like you're an "old timer" on this blog and am always curious about your progress. Thanks for checking in!

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  3. A “patient” - patient from India-
    Your book has boosted my already high confidence in healing my knees!
    In India, now TKR is in vogue, 😉 and I have knee arthritis for last five years. All my “well wishers” are after me to go for surgery. But as I have slight pain 2 on scale of 10 and I can cycle a lot, I am not going for tkr. First I read Dr Howard Luks of NewYork on this-“ TKR is not mandatory , it is patient’s choice. I wish you well, thanks, some day I too will write such book in my native language! I am 70 and have inherited longevity genes so.. I have to take care of my body!
    Thanks , 🙏

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    1. Yes, TKR is not mandatory at all, and I'm sure you can get better, even at 70. Good luck!

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  4. Hi Richard, I read your book and am very inspired by you. I am in my mid-20s and have exercised every day for all of my adult life. I ended up with chondromalacia patella very similar to yours, and I am trying to heal it. However, every time I try to quit my usual exercise routine in favor of walking, the lack of endorphins make me crazy, and I end up doing a hard workout. Even when I try to modify my workout, my knees still react badly. I end up in this vicious cycle where I try to rest my knees/take it easy, but then I get so irritable without the exercise that I exercise anyway, and usually the endorphins mask my knee pain (so I think the workout isn't that bad until later), and then the cycle repeats itself. Do you have any tips on coping with the lack of endorphins or that jittery feeling? I struggle too because I rely on exercise to help me focus at work, and I feel like if I really made serious cuts to my workout routine, I wouldn't be as productive at work. Thank you so much, and I look forward to any advice you have.

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    1. I know it's frustrating not to be able to exercise. You might think about two things: (1) Finding an exercise where you can get a good workout but your knees don't suffer (swimming? rowing machine? or?) (2) Trying meditation -- you won't get the same endorphin kick but it might help calm you down and center yourself.

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